الوحش

الشبهة

هل هذا العدد محرف؟

الرد

سفر رؤيا يوحنا اللاهوتي 17: 8

الْوَحْشُ الَّذِي رَأَيْتَ، كَانَ وَلَيْسَ الآنَ، وَهُوَ عَتِيدٌ أَنْ يَصْعَدَ مِنَ الْهَاوِيَةِ وَيَمْضِيَ إِلَى الْهَلاَكِ.وَسَيَتَعَجَّبُ السَّاكِنُونَ عَلَى الأَرْضِ، الَّذِينَ لَيْسَتْ أَسْمَاؤُهُمْ مَكْتُوبَةً فِي سِفْرِ الْحَيَاةِ مُنْذُ تَأْسِيسِ الْعَالَمِ، حِينَمَا يَرَوْنَ الْوَحْشَ أَنَّهُ كَانَ وَلَيْسَ الآنَ، مَعَ أَنَّهُ كَائِنٌ.

الحياة

8 هذا الوحش كان موجودا، وهو غير موجود الآن، ولكنه على وشك أن يطلع من الهاوية ويمضي إلى الهلاك.وسيدهش سكان الأرض الذين لم تكتب أسماؤهم منذ تأسيس العالم في سجل الحياة، عندما يرون الوحش، لأنه كان موجودا، ثم أصبح غير موجود، وسيعود!

السارة

8 والوحش الذي رأيته كان وما عاد كائنا.سيصعد بعد قليل من الهاوية ويمضي إلى الهلاك.وسيتعجب سكان الأرض الذين أسماؤهم غير مكتوبة منذ بدء العالم في كتاب الحياة عندما يرون الوحش، لأنه كان وما عاد كائنا وسيظهر ثانية.

اليسوعيه

8 (الوحش الذي رأيته كان ولكنه زال عن الوجود.سيخرج من الهاوية ويمضي إلى الهلاك.وأهل الأرض الذين لم يكتب اسمهم في سفر الحياة منذ إنشاء العالم سيعجبون إذ يرون الوحش، لأنه كان وزال عن الوجود، ثم يعود.

المشتركه

رؤ-17-8: والوَحشُ الّذي رأيتَهُ كانَ وما عادَ كائِنًا.سَيصعَدُ بَعدَ قليلٍ مِنَ الهاوِيَةِ ويَمضي إلى الهلاكِ.وسيَتَعجَّبُ سُكّانُ الأرضِ الّذين َ أسماؤُهُم غَيرُ مَكتوبَةٍ مُنذُ بَدءِ العالَمِ في كِتابِ الحياةِ عِندَما يَرَوْنَ الوَحشَ، لأنَّهُ كانَ وما عادَ كائِنًا وسيَظهَرُ ثانِيَةً.

الكاثوليكية

رؤ-17-8: (الوَحشُ الَّذي رَأَيتَه كانَ ولكِنَّه زالَ عنِ الوجود.سيَخرُجُ مِنَ الهاوِيَةِ ويَمْضي إلى الهَلاك.وأَهلُ الأَرضِ الَّذينَ لم يُكتَبِ اسمُهم في سِفرِ الحَياةِ مُنذُ إِنْشاءِ العالَمِ سيَعجَبونَ إِذ يَرَونَ الوَحش، لأَنَّه كانَ وزالَ عنِ الوُجود، ثُمَّ يَعود.

ونلاحظ ان الترجمات متشابهة

الانجليزي

King James Bible

The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

American King James Version

The beast that you saw was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

American Standard Version

The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and is about to come up out of the abyss, and to go into perdition.And they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, they whose name hath not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast, how that he was, and is not, and shall come.

Bible in Basic English

The beast which you saw was, and is not; and is about to come up out of the great deep, and to go into destruction.And those who are on the earth, whose names have not been put in the book of life from the first, will be full of wonder when they see the beast, that he was, and is not, and still will be.

Douay-Rheims Bible

The beast, which thou sawest, was, and is not, and shall come up out of the bottomless pit, and go into destruction: and the inhabitants on the earth (whose names are not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world) shall wonder, seeing the beast that was, and is not.

Darby Bible Translation

The beast which thou sawest was, and is not, and is about to come up out of the abyss and go into destruction: and they who dwell on the earth, whose names are not written from the founding of the world in the book of life, shall wonder, seeing the beast, that it was, and is not, and shall be present.

English Revised Version

The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and is about to come up out of the abyss, and to go into perdition.And they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, they whose name hath not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast, how that he was, and is not, and shall come.

GOD’S WORD® Translation (©1995)

“
You saw the beast which once was, is no longer, and will come from the bottomless pit and go to its destruction.Those living on earth, whose names were not written in the Book of Life when the world was created, will be surprised when they see the beast because it was, is no longer, and will come again.

Tyndale New Testament

The beast that thou seest, was, and is not, and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and shall go into perdition, and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder (whose names are not written in the book of life from he beginning of the world) when they behold the beast that was, and is not.

Weymouth
New Testament

“
The Wild Beast which you have seen was, and is not, and yet is destined to re-ascend, before long, out of the bottomless pit and go his way into perdition.And the inhabitants of the earth will be filled with amazement–all whose names are not in the Book of Life, having been recorded there ever since the creation of the world–when they see the Wild Beast: because he was, and is not, and yet is to come.

Webster’s Bible Translation

The beast that thou sawest, was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

World English Bible

The beast that you saw was, and is not; and is about to come up out of the abyss and to go into destruction.Those who dwell on the earth and whose names have not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world will marvel when they see that the beast was, and is not, and shall be present.

Young’s Literal Translation

‘
The beast that thou didst see: it was, and it is not; and it is about to come up out of the abyss, and to go away to destruction, and wonder shall those dwelling upon the earth, whose names have not been written upon the scroll of the life from the foundation of the world, beholding the beast that was, and is not, although it is.

New American Standard Bible (©1995)

“
The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to come up out of the abyss and go to destruction.And those who dwell on the earth, whose name has not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, will wonder when they see the beast, that he was and is not and will come

اليوناني

ΑΠΟΚΑΛΥΨΙΣ ΙΩΑΝΝΟΥ 17: 8 Greek NT: WH / NA27 / UBS4

τ
ὸ
θηρίον
ὃ
ε
ἶ
δες
ἦ
ν κα
ὶ
ο
ὐ
κ
ἔ
στιν κα
ὶ
μέλλει
ἀ
ναβαίνειν
ἐ
κ τ
ῆ
ς
ἀ
βύσσου κα
ὶ
ε
ἰ
ς
ἀ
πώλειαν
ὑ
πάγει, κα
ὶ
θαυμασθήσονται ο
ἱ
κατοικο
ῦ
ντες
ἐ
π
ὶ
τ
ῆ
ς γ
ῆ
ς,
ὧ
ν ο
ὐ
γέγραπται τ
ὸ
ὄ
νομα
ἐ
π
ὶ
τ
ὸ
βιβλίον τ
ῆ
ς ζω
ῆ
ς
ἀ
π
ὸ
καταβολ
ῆ
ς κόσμου, βλεπόντων τ
ὸ
θηρίον
ὅ
τι
ἦ
ν κα
ὶ
ο
ὐ
κ
ἔ
στιν κα
ὶ
παρέσται

ΑΠΟΚΑΛΥΨΙΣ ΙΩΑΝΝΟΥ 17: 8 Greek NT: Tischendorf 8th Ed.with Diacritics

ὁ
θηρίον
ὅ
ς
ὁ
ράω ε
ἰ
μί καί ο
ὐ
ε
ἰ
μί καί μέλλω
ἀ
ναβαίνω
ἐ
κ
ὁ
ἄ
βυσσος καί ε
ἰ
ς
ἀ
πώλεια
ὑ
πάγω καί θαυμάζω
ὁ
κατοικέω
ἐ
πί
ὁ
γ
ῆ
ὅ
ς ο
ὐ
γράφω
ὁ
ὄ
νομα
ἐ
πί
ὁ
βιβλίον
ὁ
ζωή
ἀ
πό καταβολή κόσμος βλέπω
ὁ
θηρίον
ὅ
τι ε
ἰ
μί καί ο
ὐ
ε
ἰ
μί καί πάρειμι

ΑΠΟΚΑΛΥΨΙΣ ΙΩΑΝΝΟΥ 17: 8 Greek NT: Greek Orthodox Church

Τ
ὸ
θηρίον
ὃ
ε
ἶ
δες,
ἦ
ν κα
ὶ
ο
ὐ
κ
ἔ
στι, κα
ὶ
μέλλει
ἀ
ναβαίνειν
ἐ
κ τ
ῆ
ς
ἀ
βύσσου κα
ὶ
ε
ἰ
ς
ἀ
πώλειαν
ὑ
πάγειν· κα
ὶ
θαυμάσονται ο
ἱ
κατοικο
ῦ
ντες
ἐ
π
ὶ
τ
ῆ
ς γ
ῆ
ς,
ὧ
ν ο
ὐ
γέγραπται τ
ὸ
ὄ
νομα
ἐ
π
ὶ
τ
ὸ
βιβλίον τ
ῆ
ς ζω
ῆ
ς
ἀ
π
ὸ
καταβολ
ῆ
ς κόσμου, βλεπόντων τ
ὸ
θηρίον
ὅ
τι
ἦ
ν, κα
ὶ
ο
ὐ
κ
ἔ
στι κα
ὶ
παρέσται
.

ΑΠΟΚΑΛΥΨΙΣ ΙΩΑΝΝΟΥ 17: 8 Greek NT: Stephanus Textus Receptus (1550, with accents)

θηρίον
ὃ
ε
ἶ
δες
ἦ
ν κα
ὶ
ο
ὐ
κ
ἔ
στιν κα
ὶ
μέλλει
ἀ
ναβαίνειν
ἐ
κ τ
ῆ
ς
ἀ
βύσσου κα
ὶ
ε
ἰ
ς
ἀ
πώλειαν
ὑ
πάγειν· κα
ὶ
θαυμάσονται ο
ἱ
κατοικο
ῦ
ντες
ἐ
π
ὶ
τ
ῆ
ς γ
ῆ
ς
ὧ
ν ο
ὐ
γέγραπται τ
ὰ
ὀ
νόματα
ἐ
π
ὶ
τ
ὸ
βιβλίον τ
ῆ
ς ζω
ῆ
ς
ἀ
π
ὸ
καταβολ
ῆ
ς κόσμου βλεπόντες τ
ὸ
θηρίον
ὃ
τι
ἦ
ν κα
ὶ
ο
ὐ
κ
ἔ
στιν κα
ὶ
περ
ἔ
στιν

ΑΠΟΚΑΛΥΨΙΣ ΙΩΑΝΝΟΥ 17: 8 Greek NT: Westcott/Hort with Diacritics

τ
ὸ
θηρίον
ὁ
ε
ἶ
δες
ἦ
ν κα
ὶ
ο
ὐ
κ
ἐ
στιν κα
ὶ
μέλλει
ἀ
ναβαίνειν
ἐ
κ τ
ῆ
ς
ἀ
βύσσου κα
ὶ
ε
ἰ
ς
ἀ
πώλειαν
ὑ
πάγει, κα
ὶ
θαυμασθήσονται ο
ἱ
κατοικο
ῦ
ντες
ἐ
π
ὶ
τ
ῆ
ς γ
ῆ
ς,
ὧ
ν ο
ὐ
γέγραπται τ
ὸ
ὄ
νομα
ἐ
π
ὶ
τ
ὸ
βιβλίον τ
ῆ
ς ζω
ῆ
ς
ἀ
π
ὸ
καταβολ
ῆ
ς κόσμου, βλεπόντων τ
ὸ
θηρίον
ὅ
τι
ἦ
ν κα
ὶ
ο
ὐ
κ
ἔ
στιν κα
ὶ
παρέσται

ΑΠΟΚΑΛΥΨΙΣ ΙΩΑΝΝΟΥ 17: 8 Greek NT: Byzantine/Majority Text (2000)

το θηριον ο ειδες ην και ουκ εστιν και μελλει αναβαινειν εκ της αβυσσου και εις απωλειαν υπαγειν και θαυμασονται οι κατοικουντες επι της γης ων ου γεγραπται τα ονοματα επι το βιβλιον της ζωης απο καταβολης κοσμου βλεποντων οτι ην το θηριον και ουκ εστιν και παρεσται

ΑΠΟΚΑΛΥΨΙΣ ΙΩΑΝΝΟΥ 17: 8 Greek NT: Textus Receptus (1550)

θηριον ο ειδες ην και ουκ εστιν και μελλει αναβαινειν εκ της αβυσσου και εις απωλειαν υπαγειν και θαυμασονται οι κατοικουντες επι της γης ων ου γεγραπται τα ονοματα επι το βιβλιον της ζωης απο καταβολης κοσμου βλεποντες το θηριον ο τι ην και ουκ εστιν καιπερ εστιν

thērion o eides ēn kai ouk estin kai mellei anabainein ek tēs abussou kai eis apōleian upagein kai thaumasontai oi katoikountes epi tēs gēs ōn ou gegraptai ta onomata epi to biblion tēs zōēs apo katabolēs kosmou blepontes to thērion o ti ēn kai ouk estin kaiper estin

ΑΠΟΚΑΛΥΨΙΣ ΙΩΑΝΝΟΥ 17: 8 Greek NT: Textus Receptus (1894)

το θηριον ο ειδες ην και ουκ εστιν και μελλει αναβαινειν εκ της αβυσσου και εις απωλειαν υπαγειν και θαυμασονται οι κατοικουντες επι της γης ων ου γεγραπται τα ονοματα επι το βιβλιον της ζωης απο καταβολης κοσμου βλεποντες το θηριον ο τι ην και ουκ εστιν καιπερ εστιν

والترجمات المهمة

القديمة من القرن الرابع

البشيتا الارامي

Revelation 17: 8 Aramaic NT: Peshitta

ܚܝܘܬܐ ܕܚܙܝܬ ܐܝܬܝܗ ܗܘܬ ܘܠܝܬܝܗ ܥܬܝܕܐ ܕܬܤܩ ܡܢ ܝܡܐ ܘܠܐܒܕܢܐ ܐܙܠܐ
ܘܢܬܕܡܪܘܢ ܥܡܪܝ ܥܠ ܐܪܥܐ ܗܢܘܢ ܕܠܐ ܟܬܝܒܝܢ ܫܡܗܝܗܘܢ ܒܤܦܪܐ ܕܚܝܐ ܡܢ ܬܪܡܝܬܗ ܕܥܠܡܐ ܕܚܙܝܢ ܚܝܘܬܐ ܕܐܝܬܝܗ ܗܘܬ ܘܠܝܬܝܗ ܘܩܪܒܬ ܀

وايضا الفلجاتا للقديس جيروم

The beast which thou sawest, was, and is not, and shall come up out of the bottomless pit and go into destruction.And the inhabitants on the earth (whose names are not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world) shall wonder, seeing the beast that was and is not
.

 
bestiam quam vidisti fuit et non est et ascensura est de abysso et in interitum ibit et mirabuntur inhabitantes terram quorum non sunt scripta nomina in libro vitae a constitutione mundi videntes bestiam quia erat et non est

المخطوط الصعيدي القبطي الي تعود للقرن الرابع الميلادي

8.
pequrion ntaknau eroF neFSoop pe auw neFSoop an auw Fnhu eHrai Hm pnoun neFbwk eptako auw nserSphre nCi netouhhH HiJm pkaH nai ete nneuran shH an epJwwme mpwnH Jin ntkatabolh mpkosmos eunau epequrion Je neFSoop pe auw neFSoop an auw FnaSwpe

السينائية

kai palain parestai

الفاتيكانية

κα
ὶ
παρέσται

والاسكندرية

And will be present

κα
ὶ
παρέσται

kai parestai

A P syr

or
،
and again will be present

kai palain parestai

X
*

or, and is present

kai parestain

x2
،
maj a group

or, and yet is

κα
ὶ
περ
ἔ
στιν

kaiper estain

received text

ملحوظه مهمة في المقاطع الصوتيه

Kai per estain

Kaiper estain = and yet is
،
,,,, kai parestain = and is present

The difference between parestain and parestai

ويقول العالم روجر اومانسون

Roger L.Omanson

Instead of the present indicative verb(he goes)
،
some manuscripts have the infinitive form(to go).In Greek manuscripts, final ne is often represented merely by a horizontal stroke over the preceding letter, so the difference in spelling between verb and infinitive was very slight.In this context, the present indicative is the more difficult reading, which copyists would have tended to change to the infinitive after (be about to).The variant has little significance as far as the meaning.The indicative states that the beast is going to destruction, while the infinitive states what he is about to do
.

بدل وجود الفعل هو مستمر بعض المخطوطات تحتوي علي المصدر (اتي).في المخطوطات اليونانية حرف الني الي في اخر الكلمة دائما يتمثل بوجود علامه افقية فوق الحرف, لذلك الفرق بين استهجاء الفعل والمصدر فرق بسيط جدا.في هذا العدد, وجود حرف الني يجعلها اصعب في القراءه، الذي جعل النساخ يحولوها للمصدر (ياتي فيما بعد).هذا الفرق له تاسير لا يذكر في بعد المعني.فالصفة تعبر عن ان الوحش سوف يستمر في التخريب ولكن صيغة المصدر يعبر عن ما سيفعله قريبا.

A textual guide of the Greek new testament, page 544

ويقول العالم بروس متزجر

17.8
u`pa,gei {B
}

Orthographically u`pa,gei (A 1611 2053 al) differs very little from u`pa,gein (a P 046 051 1006 1854 al), for in Greek manuscripts final n is often represented merely by a horizontal stroke over the preceding letter.In the context the present indicative is the more difficult reading, which copyists would have been prone to alter to the infinitive after me,llei
.

في المخطوطات اليوناني حرف الني يعبر عنه بشرطه افقيه فوق الحرف الاخير.في هذا العدد وجود الحرف يجعل القراءه اصعب هذا السبب الذي جعل النساخ يغيروا من الفعل للمصدر

Metzger, Textual Commentary on NT

اقوال الاباء واقتباساتهم

يقول القديس ايرينيؤس في رسالته ردا علي هيريسيس

4.
But he indicates the number of the name now, that when this man comes we may avoid him, being aware who he is: the name, however, is suppressed, because it is not worthy of being proclaimed by the Holy Spirit.For if it had been declared by Him, he (Antichrist) might perhaps continue for a long period.But now as “he was, and is not, and shall ascend out of the abyss, and goes into perdition,”47084708 Rev.xvii.8.as one who has no existence; so neither has his name been declared, for the name of that which does not exist is not proclaimed.But when this Antichrist shall have devastated all things in this world, he will reign for three years and six months, and sit in the temple at Jerusalem; and then the Lord will come from heaven in the clouds, in the glory of the Father, sending this man and those who follow him into the lake of fire; but bringing in for the righteous the times of the kingdom, that is, the rest, the hallowed seventh day; and restoring to Abraham the promised inheritance, in which kingdom the Lord declared, that “many coming from the east and from the west should sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.”47094709 Matt.viii.11
.

Ante-nicene fathers, volume 1 page 560, Irenaeus against Heresies

ويقول القديس هيرماس من القرن الثاني الميلادي

I see a mighty beast like a whale, and out of its mouth fiery locusts134134 [Rev.ix.3.] proceeded.But the size of that beast was about a hundred feet, and it had a head like an urn.135135 Comp.Rev.xi.7, xii.3, 4, xiii.1, xvii.8, xxii.2.[The beast was “like a whale” in size and proportion.It was not a sea-monster.This whole passage is Dantesque.See Inferno, canto xxxi., and, for the colours, canto xvii.15.] I began to weep, and to call on the Lord to rescue me from it.Then I remembered the word which I had heard, “Doubt not, O Hermas.” Clothed, therefore, my brethren, with faith in the Lord136136 God.—Lips., Vat.and remembering the great things which He had taught me, I boldly faced the beast.Now that beast came on with such noise and force, that it could itself have destroyed a city.137137 The Vat.adds: with a stroke.I came near it, and the monstrous beast stretched itself out on the ground, and showed nothing but its tongue, and did not stir at all until I had passed by it.Now the beast had four colours on its head—black, then fiery and bloody, then golden, and lastly white
.

Ante-niecene fathers, volume 2 page 18, The Pastor of Hermas

ويقول القديس جيروم

Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers

Series II

Volume VI.Jerome: Letters and Select Works

Letter XLVI.Paula and Eustochium to Marcella
.

12.
Read the apocalypse of John, and consider what is sung therein of the woman arrayed in purple, and of the blasphemy written upon her brow, of the seven mountains, of the many waters, and of the end of Babylon.10041004 Rev.xvii.4, 5, 9; i.15; xvii; xviii.“Come out of her, my people,” so the Lord says, “that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.”10051005 Rev.xviii.4.Turn back also to Jeremiah and pay heed to what he has written of like import: “Flee out of the midst of
Babylon
, and deliver every man his soul.”10061006 Jer.li.6.For “
Babylon
the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit.”10071007 Rev.xviii.2.It is true that
Rome
has a holy church, trophies of apostles and martyrs, a true confession of Christ
.

والمعني المقصود به

آيات 8،7 “ثم قال لي الملاك لماذا تعجبت انا اقول لك سر المراة والوحش الحامل لها الذي له السبعة الرؤوس والعشرة القرون.الوحش الذي رايت كان وليس الان وهو عتيد ان يصعد من الهاوية ويمضي الى الهلاك وسيتعجب الساكنون على الارض الذين ليست اسماؤهم مكتوبة في سفر الحياة منذ تاسيس العالم حينما يرون الوحش انه كان وليس الان مع انه كائن”.

الوحش = هو الشيطان

كان = كان له سلطان على البشر، وكان يشتكى عليهم ويأسرهم، ويأخذ نفوسهم للجحيم عند موتهم

وليس الآن = فالمسيح بصليبه قيده ألف سنة (رؤ2: 20) وما عاد له سلطان علينا بعد أن حررنا المسيح بفدائه (لو17: 10-19) + (كو15،14: 2).إذا المؤمن الآن صار له سلطان على إبليس، وليس لإبليس سلطان عليه وهو عتيد أن يصعد من الجحيم = فى نهاية الألف سنة لابد أن يحل إبليس زمانا يسيرا (رؤ3: 20) وسيكون هذا فى مدة ضد المسيح والنبى الكذاب.

ويمضى إلى الهلاك = حين يطرح فى البحيرة المتقدة بالنار (رؤ10: 20).

سيتعجب = أولاد الله لهم سلطان على إبليس وعلى شهواتهم ويحتقرون ملذات هذا العالم.وهذا الموقف سيجعل الآخرين = الذين ليست أسماؤهم مكتوبة فى سفر الحياة = هؤلاء سيتعجبون من هذا السلطان، فمن لا يعرف سر الصليب سيتعجب من سلطان أولاد الله.

ويوضح ان ان الشيطان قيد وبعد ذلك سيحل قليلا